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September 10, 2006



It's amazing the number of mental hoops that the apologists have to jump through to get to a point where they think their position stands. Their primary assertion, in answer to your questions, is that Joseph did not receive all knowledge at once, it was line upon line, precept on precept. That is why he may have made statements that are out of line with LGT. This is classical apologetic approach. What is the answer? Let's construct an argument that fits (sort of).

One of the things that is so amazing to me on boards like FAIR is that the apologists live in their own little world and have their own view of things, then either consciously or unconsciously attempt to project their view onto members at large. Recently I was over there trying to get some insights into why the mopologists thought that most members believed that they should not look at faith-challenging materials. The responses which I received were simply denials of the situation or, "I was never told not to look."

I suspect that the mopologists would deny that anyone with any little bit of intelligence would believe HGT today, again, projecting their current views onto Mormons in general. I suspect some, particularly the more amateur ones, project unconsciously. But some of the others, like DP and JL, probably project in an attempt to influence the transition of thinking amongst church members.

I look forward to the rest of your series here.

mayan elephant

GDT and Equality:

I have made comments in another forum about NOMs and mopologists, the key difference is not what they believe in regards to doctrine and words of the prophets. NOM folks dont believe the nonsense, but they choose to participate in the church at some level because they love their family more than they hate the church, generally. in most cases, NOMs and Mops agree on points of doctrine or history that are a bit whack. the mopologists on the other hand, love the church more than anything and are willing to sacrifice integrity, and stretch logic, to reinforce that faith in the church.

i think the previous thread on this topic where equality linked to comments by DCP and midgley, who assert that the differences are a function of slothfulness and lack of faith demonstrate that point very well.

clearly, NOMs and many that have left the church understand the finer points as well as the mopologists do, but they refuse to ignore or excuse the details. mopologists are operating on the basis that the church cannot be at fault or faulty, so any defense, no matter how porous (and with a superficial "peer review") is valid and one of integrity. i disagree with that assertion.


I feel the apologetics know deap down that they contradict the church daily. It is the only way for them to justify their belief and to be right. I think apologetics is not about truth, but being right, while everyone else is wrong.

Matt aka Notamormon

So much spin, so little sense! Of course, the other theory the DNE theory (Did Not Exist) really holds no pleasure for the TBMs.


As interesting as it is to think about, I don't think it rightly matters. If they were in a limited area then so be it. If they spanned the whole America's, cool. Mostly it is about faith and believing that which isn't known, but is true. I've read some LDS books on the subject, and they're good, but ultimately it's a matter of faith.

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