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August 16, 2007

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Equality

This is great stuff, fh451. Thanks for posting it here. I look forward to the future installments. I have been thinking a lot about the idea put forth by a Mormon apologist who has posted comments here to the effect that the only difference between a faithful Mormon who knows the history and a disaffected Mormon is that they are simply making different inferences about the facts and evidence. Of course, that is true, but the question is whether some inferences are more reasonable than others. Your example of how the hypothetical woman deals with the information about her cheating husband is a good one. She is making inferences, giving her husband the benefit of the doubt in every case. But while that may be reasonable with one piece of evidence (e.g., "I saw your husband at a motel with another woman"), which may be reasonable as additional facts come to light (e.g., "they were in the lobby. The woman looked like his sister. She had two kids that look just like your nephews."), it becomes less reasonable depending on other facts that come to light (e.g., "he was kissing a woman passionately as they left the room together.") In the latter case, the wife's decision to give her husband the benefit of the doubt (to apply positive rather than negative inferences to the facts presented) is less reasonable. At some point, giving her husband the benefit of the doubt by always drawing a positive inference becomes completely unreasonable (i.e., the other woman keeps calling; there is lipstick on his collar; unexplained time away from home; pictures of the other woman in his wallet; a DNA test showing that he has fathered a child by this other woman, etc.).

That's really the case with Joseph Smith. Sure you can give him the benefit of the doubt on some things and draw positive inferences on some things. But as the evidence piles up, it becomes extremely unreasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt on everything. At some point, the evidence ought to break through the dissonance. That it doesn't always is a testament to the power of religious belief.

DPC

It's a well-written, well-conceived letter. I think that anyone about to read Thornton Wilder's "The Bridge of San Luis Rey" should read it. The main point of the letter deals with applying scientific reasoning to religious belief. Anytime someone starts talking about that, I can't help but think of poor Brother Juniper and his 'experiments.'

I do find it interesting, however, that under the portion labeled knowledge you omitted any definition of what philosophers consider knowledge. The consensus view is that knowledge is true, justified belief. The physiological mechanism of obtaining knowledge, however advanced it may be, never tells us what knowledge actually is.

I also find it interesting that you employ the law of parsimony in evaluating religious beliefs. The problem with it is that is does not allow for spiritual or mystical experiences to be assigned any meaning or importance. I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone that would apply it so cynically to mystical experiences. Besides, people in real life seem to be unconvinced by it. (See the O.J. Simpson criminal trial and acquittal; although to be fair, the LAPD did hurt the prosecution by being sloppy in their treatment of the crime scene.) It may have it uses in certain circumstances, but I think there is no basis to use it for every conceivable circumstance.

As far as the adultery and prophet analogy is concerned in Equality's post, I think it overlooks the importance of defining terms before looking at the evidence. To wit, it's easy to define what an adulterer is, but not so easy to define what a prophet is. I think that we can all agree that an adulterer is a person who is married to someone and has sexual relations with a person who is not his/her legally-married spouse. For the wife in the analogy to experience cognitive dissonance, she would have to find that the evidence pointed to her husband matching the description of an adulterer above. The greater the evidence, the more likely her husband is an adulterer. And Equality's point that you can only give the benefit of the doubt up to a certain level is correct.

But what if we're talking about prophets? If you go out onto the street and stop ten random individuals, ten out of ten of them would most likely agree to the definition of an adulterer above. If you asked those same ten people, "What is a prophet?", I very much doubt that you would have ten substantially similar definitions. What is the consensus view of what makes a person a prophet? Considering the vast differences in religious belief concerning prophets, is there a neutral, independent-of-a-given-religion definition? This leaves us in a quandary because the definition is the basis on which we identify the facts that are material or relevant to the determination of a prophet. In a free country like ours, there are no universal, exterior definitions of a religious prophet. It comes down to a personal choice and what I define as a prophet defines what evidence I will consider material in making a determination as to whether a particular person fits that mold. It may be 'kooky', 'creepy', 'mysterious' and 'spooky', but only because of public opinion and for no other reason. It is fallacious to argue that I am wrong simply because a majority of people think otherwise.

There can be no scientific definition of a prophet. It is a purely religious thing. Religious belief entails that a choice of some kind has been made. And that choice determines which inferences are reasonable or credible. If people don't agree with what you define as a prophet, they can't say that you are being stubborn or irrational; you just don't have common ground on which to operate because you haven't arrived at a definition of what you are talking about. Absent a consensus definition, any discussion would be meaningless. If I believe that a person is a prophet because they have a tattoo of a skull on their chest, who is to say that I am wrong in my religious beliefs? If I hear about someone who has a skull tattoo and they also happen to be a serial killer, I have a choice. I can change my definition (and I concede that outside influences play a major role in changing a given definition) or I may say, "Well, I never defined a prophet as a perfect person, I only ever said that they have skulls tattooed on their chest. Anything Prophet X does outside of his tattoo is not worthy of my attention and has no bearing on his divine calling." If I did change my beliefs based on someone else's reasoning, I would already have to be somewhat sympathetic to that viewpoint because there would be no common ground otherwise.

Mr. Moynihan was correct when he said that people can't choose the facts, but he omitted to mention that the opinion they choose determines which facts they consider meaningful and important.

RAS

I concur that the definition of a prophet is not as objective or standard as the definition for adulterer is. In this case I believe we are safe in holding Joseph Smith to his owns claims whether it be called prophet, seer, or conman. He claimed to have had a vision. He claimed to have been threatened by an angel with a sword if he did not conform to the practice of polygamy. He claimed that his followers would reap huge benefits if they invested in his "revealed" banking institution in Kirkland. He claimed to have translated ancient papyri written by Abraham.

So whatever definition you choose, he can be held to those claims.

fh451

Thanks, DPC, for your thoughtful comments. In saying that it's "interesting" that I omitted any mention of a definition of what philosophers consider to be knowledge, are you implying I did that on purpose to somehow avoid something that might undermine my thesis? Just asking, because I don't think I'm really capable of that kind of sophistry, frankly :-). First, I don't feel like I'm an expert in the field of epistomology and it is true that the question of "what do we really _know_ anyway?" is difficult and messy. I doubt I could really do it justice. Second, I didn't think it would add much to what I was trying to say to my target audience - but you did a good job supplying a succinct statement. Of course, one could argue (and many have, for thousands of years) exactly what one means by "true," and "justified" (or even "belief," for that matter :-)). In general, I think most people (especially teenagers) have some intuitive feel for what it is to "know" something, and I don't know if it's worthwhile to belabor the point at a philosophical level.

RAS already gave, IMO, a good response regarding the "prophet" definition. I really don't much care what the "man on the street" would say a prophet is; I'm really only interested in the LDS definition of prophet as I was taught growing up, and the version my children have likely been and are being taught. The expectation that I have of a theology is that it should at least be internally consistent, even if it is not supported by emperical evidence in the scientific sense. The LDS idea that the powers of heaven are irrevocably tied to personal worthiness is in direct conflict with one who claims to receive prophetic revelation, while at the same time behaving in a way that would, by the LDS definition, make one inelligable for such. Thus, my investigation into the behavior of Joseph Smith led to an inescapable (for me) conclusion: he could not be a prophet by his own definition.

The "law of parsimony" is only a law because we call it such; in reality, it is an idea that has been found to be useful in a variety of situations. There are circumstances in which the more complicated explanation for a phenomonon does, in fact, turn out to be correct. But it is only judged so in the light of additional experimentation or information that then makes the more complex explanation better match the evidence. All things being equal (which they rarely are) I would still favor the simpler explanation, even for mystical experiences. I'm not convinced by the O.J. Simpson analogy. The fact that the jury came to an erroneous conclusion in no way impugns the value of Occam's Razor. In fact, I would say that had they actually used Occam's Razor appropriately, justice would have been better served. But that is a completely seperate issue from mystical/spiritual experience. In my opinion, one has to accept the existince of a spiritual or mystical realm ex-nihilo as axiomatic, and proceed from there. Those that accept it, simply do and don't seem persuaded otherwise by the vagueries and sometimes contradictory conclusions that often results. If one desires to believe, then it is a simple matter to come up with a satisfactory (for them) explanation. In a subsequent installment I will give a few more examples of debating techniques that are often used in such situations, and what I consider to be the difference between faith and knowledge.

fh451

Eric Robeck

Excellent letter. I will probably be writing a similar letter someday, as I find myself in the same situation.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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