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November 12, 2008



This was nice to see, but are you sure it's not just corporate damage control due to the push to boycott of Mormon-owned businesses?


Eli: Yeah, I was wondering about that as well, however he does mention that they were one of the first corporations in the country to offer domestic partnership benefits so if that's true, it would seem that there must be at least some sincerity there.


Equality - Prop 8 has been heavily on my mind (and is the reason I formally resigned the church). Today it occurred to me to wonder if an unconscious reason behind the organized sponsorship of this proposition is that gay marriage undermines the church position that homosexuality is a) a trial by God and b) entirely sexual in nature. After all, the impulse to marry goes well beyond sex. Since homosexuality is no longer a criminal offense gay lovers can have sex without fear of legal action (I totally recognize the social issues that, unfortunately, remain). Marriage however means we're talking about a deep emotional attachment, well beyond the physical. We're talking about recognizing that this relationship shares the same urge to formalize their attachment, to make a significant commitment before the law and society - in other words to publicly take each other and no other because of the depth of their love.

This idea puts the Mormon idea of God into rather a bad light. Instead of simply giving some people a physical urge that can and should be fought (to be clear, I'm stating my understanding of the church position, not my own philosophy), God is telling those same people that they will never, on this earth, be able to enjoy a deeply fulfilling, even spiritual bond of romantic love with another person. What a cruel and terrible thing for a loving Father in Heaven to do to anyone.



As my friend Hellmut commented on a discussion board thread on this topic, "That's a good point . . . and we can't really know what motivates Marriott, can we? But either way, it's good news for us. If we assume the best then a prominent Mormon disagrees with the brethren over discrimination. If we assume the worst then the gay rights movement has the power to change the behavior of a prominent Mormon.

Either way, I will take it."


I think you may be on to something. But I am not convinced that the General Authorities think that deeply about doctrine, or believe it so deeply as to be troubled by its implications beyond its power to provide the impetus that generates more obedience. Interesting thoughts, though.


Yes... although apparently I underestimated at least some church authorities. You might be interested in this release:


From that article:

" PUBLIC AFFAIRS: A little earlier, Elder Oaks, you talked about the same standard of morality for heterosexuals and homosexuals. How would you address someone who said to you, ‘I understand it’s the same standard, but aren’t we asking a little more of someone who has same-gender attraction?’ Obviously there are heterosexual people who won’t get married, but would you accept that they at least have hope that ‘tomorrow I could meet the person of my dreams.’ There’s always the hope that that could happen at any point in their life. Someone with same-gender attraction wouldn’t necessarily have that same hope.

ELDER OAKS: There are differences, of course, but the contrast is not unique. There are people with physical disabilities that prevent them from having any hope — in some cases any actual hope and in other cases any practical hope — of marriage. The circumstance of being currently unable to marry, while tragic, is not unique.

It is sometimes said that God could not discriminate against individuals in this circumstance. But life is full of physical infirmities that some might see as discriminations — total paralysis or serious mental impairment being two that are relevant to marriage. If we believe in God and believe in His mercy and His justice, it won’t do to say that these are discriminations because God wouldn’t discriminate. We are in no condition to judge what discrimination is. We rest on our faith in God and our utmost assurance of His mercy and His love for all of His children.

ELDER WICKMAN: There’s really no question that there is an anguish associated with the inability to marry in this life. We feel for someone that has that anguish. I feel for somebody that has that anguish. But it’s not limited to someone who has same-gender attraction.

We live in a very self-absorbed age. I guess it’s naturally human to think about my own problems as somehow greater than someone else’s. I think when any one of us begins to think that way, it might be well be to look beyond ourselves. Who am I to say that I am more handicapped, or suffering more, than someone else?

I happen to have a handicapped daughter. She’s a beautiful girl. She’ll be 27 next week. Her name is Courtney. Courtney will never marry in this life, yet she looks wistfully upon those who do. She will stand at the window of my office which overlooks the Salt Lake Temple and look at the brides and their new husbands as they’re having their pictures taken. She’s at once captivated by it and saddened because Courtney understands that will not be her experience here. Courtney didn’t ask for the circumstances into which she was born in this life, any more than somebody with same-gender attraction did. So there are lots of kinds of anguish people can have, even associated with just this matter of marriage. What we look forward to, and the great promise of the gospel, is that whatever our inclinations are here, whatever our shortcomings are here, whatever the hindrances to our enjoying a fullness of joy here, we have the Lord’s assurance for every one of us that those in due course will be removed. We just need to remain faithful. "


Megan, I'd say you vastly underestimated these guys. Apart from the apples-and-oranges comparison of homosexuality to brain disorders, Wickman was a dick to exploit his daughter like that--and why wouldn't someone with what sounds like moderate mental retardation be able to get married in the first place?

LDS Truthseeker

Thanks for the info Equality. I wasn't aware of this. And good job Mr. Marriott

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